Soda blasting and powder coating in East Bay San Francisco

I have been in contact with Aidan, a fellow LCUSA member, and we have been hunting for a local soda blaster. I posted the question on LCUSA's forum and Guillermo of Lambretta Works suggested"Leons Powder Coating" in Oakland, CA. I emailed the Leon Family for the following estimate(s):

Hello Leons Family,

I am restoring a 1962 Italian Lambretta motorscooter. It is all metal. There are three things I'd like to you if (1) you do, (2) what the ball park estimate is, and (3) what type of turn around can I expect?

---------- Projects ----------
1) I need to have two engine (3/4s the size of lawn mower engine) cases soda blaster. I have a friend who may also wish to do one to two of his engines at the same time if we can get a "batch" rate on the job.

2) My scooter will require some very light body work straightening out two to four panels of the body.

3) I would like to have my entire scooter body prepped and painted in two colors. It would look like this:
http://www.smellofdeath.com/lloydy/images/Jays_tv175_1.jpg

This may serve as a point of reference:
http://lambrettarestoration.blogspot.com/2007/10/vision-for-when-all-is-said-and-done.html

The majority of the parts are quite small.

In coral red (Lechler system colors #8065)
fork, frame, leg-shield, handle bar and headset, floorboard tunnel, wheel hubs, front disc brake backing plate, wheel rims, spare wheel holder, glove box lid, tail-light body, fuel tap hatch, stand, stand mudguard, right-hand rear running board L-bracket air intake (beneath saddle), side-panels, front cowling, horn grille, and front mudguard (fiberglass).

In new white (Lechler system colors #8059):
fuel tank, rear mudguard, cylinder head, air intake manifold (2 pieces), glove box, air box, filter carrier, fuel tank support strap, and battery support strap.

---------- ---------- ---------- ----------

I recognize I provided an abundance of information, but I figured too much is better than two little). I suspect it is possible that you have also done some work on vintage Lambretta scooters as well. Guillermo of Lambretta Works says you guys do great work.

Note: I will post the response. I am very close to being ready to soda blast my engines.

Update: July 31, 2009.

I am beginning to research the prep and paint process of my scoot.

I considered soda blasting the engine cases, but am now looking into vapor/dry ice blasting, because there is no clean up of the cases and it is supposed to be a lot cheaper.

For powder coat I have turned up:

I am in discussions with Leons Powder Coating & Sand Blasting now. $250 quote for major parts and small parts will be extra. I am trying to find out the cap on the entire bike for media blast and powder.

I just spoke with Curtis of Melrose Metal Finishing in East Bay. He quoted me $1200 cash (I asked him to HIGH ball his quote and he did) to medium blast and powder in two colors using the RAL system or paint chip. He said the bike must be delivered with all body work done and ready to be blasted and painted. He has worked on motorcycles before. He does not want to powder coat the gas tank, because the heat and the seams of the tank. He would rather liquid paint this. He really recommended going with wet paint if there is a body work to be done.

A few months back a local club member, Mike C., was telling me how impressed he was with the knowledge of powdering a scooter from a phone call he had with West Coast Powder Coating in South San Francisco. He was quoted $1000 for the whole Lambretta. He didn't end up using him, but he said it sounds like this guy knows what's up.

Lambretta tools by Dien Nguyen

My father-in-law has 30 plus years experience as a professional welder and when it come to fabricating most things he can do it. Hell, he redid our entire kitchen in our previous home. He's got mad game when it comes to "projects". I cashed in yet again with him this July (2009). Mr. Nguyen is a refugee from Vietnam and escaped the fall of Saigon with less than 24 hours before it fell. He tells my wife and I stories of his love of Lambrettas when he was younger. He said that Vespas were for old people in Vietnam and young rode Lambrettas. He loves Lambrettas. We went for a ride together a few years back and he can ride too.

Anyhow, I showed him pictures and measurements of a clutch compressor I borrowed from Dano of FLCSC in Oakland and this is what he made me (note that Dano's is in back of mine):I ended up with a professional quality clutch compressor for free made from scraps at my father-in-law's work. I am pretty damn happy.

I wasn't overly worried about polishing mine, but I did grind/sand down the tip of the bolt so as it would not hurt the scoot itself. An alternative design can be found here. It would look something like this.

Another tool he made for me was the con-rod tool. Mr. Nguyen followed Jim M.'s design on this one. I can grind the inside smooth no problem, but to be honest it may not be necessary. Crude looking tools that function properly do not bother me at all as long as they do not hurt the scoot. A crude looking restoration is what would bother me.

Thanx Bo (dad in Vietnamese). As usual I owe you one!

Reference: Lambretta Tools

So as you can tell I am on a tool fabrication kick and I will post pictures of the tools I have made. When you have access to free labor and free parts and the tools are free, it's hard not to get into the tool fab state-of-mind. While visiting my in-laws in Portland, I borrowed the following tools to use as a reference from Ming K. and Paul B. Thanx guys. It was so helpful to have a tool to compare it to.

Below is reference of tools - some homemade and some shop made.

Homemade clutch compressor. See previous post with Jim M.'s plans to make this tool.

Flywheel holding tool with one tooth. See Jim M.'s plans on this blog to make this tool as well. Note: the electric flywheels benefit from a longer tooth than this tool has.

Clutch holding tool. Note: it would be easier to use an old clutch plate and weld two levers to it.

Rear hub puller. I am not certain that this puller has to be circular. This in one tool my father-in-law is working on currently for me. He will use steel and a tap/dye set to run fine threads through it. I also wonder if an electrical conduit for $5 from Home Depot could be easily adapted for this tool.
I will also be able to fab this tool to remove the gudgeon pin from the piston.

I will post pictures of the tools I had made in a later post.

Lambretta tool: Jeremy Sutton's silent block extractor/installer

To see the finished tool and see it in action, click here.

My very basic silent block tool design. Here's what I used:
1) 1/2 x 8 inch bolt with welded nut on one side (recommend you do not weld it for ease of use).
2) A variety of washer sizes with quite a few small ones so I can stack them up when extracting the sb.
3) 2x3 inch pipe.
4) 2 and 1/2 inch circles cut in steel with with 1/2 inch hole in middle for bolt.
5) I used an angle grinder to smooth all surfaces.

Note: one modification I will make on my next trip to Portland (where I make my tools with my father-in-law, who has 30 plus years welding experience and more) will be to cut a new pipe a bit longer with a carved arch in it to fit the engine case perfectly and ensure the sb is pulled out perfectly straight.

It is imperative that the extractor pipe is flush with your engine case so that the silent block is pulled out straight and installed in straight. Any angle than straight could result in cracking your case, seriously! I spoke with two of my mentors on this (Tom G. and Mike A.) and it's not worth taking any chances. Below, I have provided you with a template to use to cut your extracting pipe to fit your case.

Three to four cuts are required:

1) one to two cuts to cut the length of the pipe.

2) for the final two 1/2" cuts stand the pipe vertically.

3) roll the pipe on its side and cut the 3 and 6/3" cut.

My design for the silent block tool was stolen from an old LCUSA post and then somewhat adapted. You can make it easily with one trip to Home Depot as well or from scraps from a construction yard.

Here's what you need:

1) 1/2 x 7 inch bolt (get open ended. it's easier).

2) A nut for the bolt.

3) 2 x 3 inch threaded pipe.

4) 2 and 1/2 circular conduit or alike.

5) A variety of washers, with three for the small end of your sb for extraction.

Lambretta tool: Kieran Walsh's & Stewart Nicol's silent block extractor/installer

Below is one of the best homemade designed silent block extractor/installer tool. You can purchase these parts at Home Depot or alike in the electrical, plumbing, and hardware sections and you will be able to make this tool at a fraction of the $70 it costs to buy this tool.

Above is the plan designed by Kieran Walsh& Stewart Nicol.

The extractor is on the left side and the installer is on the right.



Here is the tricky cut outs to fit the engine case.

2 inch section.

2 and 1/2 inch section.

Thanx for sharing Kieran.

Lambretta tool set part #2

I want to make my own silent block (engine buffer) extrator/installer tool. I found these instructions in the LCUSA archive. The detailed photographs are helpful. I also asked fellow LCUSA members how they have done it and here is the response I got:

The original BBS thread here:

artclone
Member since Apr-29-03
20 posts Mar-12-04, 09:37 PM (EDT)
"RE: Lambretta Engine Silent blocks removal"
In response to message #1

I followed instructions I found on this list - do a search. The instructions below are good, but the original was better.

It is easy to make a good puller/press yourself. Bring your silent block to the local hardware store. I went to ACE. You can make a puller with standard, non-metric, parts - pipe and nuts, bolt, and washers.

There is no way to break a case using this puller. Broken cases are caused when people use hammers to do this job.

Go to the plumbing section and get a standard iron pipe wide enough to just fit over the silentblock (sb from now on) and a touch longer than the length of the sb. This is needed to pull the old silent block out.

Get 2 giant washers as wide as the outside of the pipe. These will be used for pulling and pressing.

Get 4 smaller washers as wide as the sb small end (the right ones will be a touch narrower) These will pull out the sb from the inside.

Get a bolt a bit longer than the pipe and 1/2 the silentblock and 6 washers and nut together, but not too long. It should be just narrower than the hole in the silent block.

Get a nut and a spare to fit the bolt

---------------------

this works perfectly every time. you pull the old sb out using all parts - slip the pipe over the old sb. Insert bolt and 2 small washers from inside of engine mount; nut, small and large washers on the outside. Tighten nut and bolt until sb comes out. Use heat if you really think you need to, but if the mount isn't coming out, the problem is probably with the way you are using the puller.

Check new sb and engine mount surfaces for obstructions and sand off if needed. Lightly grease the outside of the new silent block and the inside of the engine mount, gently tap sb in the case just a bit with a rubber mallet. Putting a new sb requires the bolt, nut, and 2 small and 1 large washer on both the inside and outside. Put bolt through outside this time. Press new sb in by tightening nut and bolt.

Here's a good picture of the real deal i found as well.

Crank and flywheel seized together

My crank would not spin and neither would my flywheel. I suspected them to be seized together by mud, muck, and or rust. I asked my mentors how to address and here are the responses:

"The crank and flywheel not spinning is not really an issue since they are getting replaced. Could be the fly and crank side bearings are seized to the crank. You need to remove the flywheel and tap the crank out. I say tap but you will probably pound the crank out. Before you beat on it and ruin it, hit it with heat, and soak it in liquid wrench on the fly wheel side. Keep me posted."- Stu

If your primary chain is removed on the gearcase side (leaving nothing attached to the clutch side crank taper), and your cylinder is off already -- and your flywheel and crank still won't move, then either (a) the bottom end conrod bearing is locked up, (b) the flywheel is rusted to the stator (or packed with debris), (c) the flywheel side mag bearings are rusted in place, (d)the crank webs are rusted to the case, or (e) some combination of the above.

Pics might help here.

You might try pulling the flywheel and seeing if that helps." - Tom G.

Update: I ordered the flywheel puller from Scooters Originali and happily that solved entire problem. I removed the flywheel and the crank moved. I removed the crank and it looks to be in good shape. I never found what caused it all to stick together. I will post pictures in a slideshow of this. i will title it engine disassembly part 2.

Stuck flywheel bearing

Emailed my mentor Mike A.

Mike,

I am working on the fly wheel bearing. Heat gun got it piping hot. I tapped the housing on a wooden surface and bearing moved a little. Reheated and tapped against wood again. No movement. Stuck in place. Used a 24mm (my largest) socket to tap it out. It went to the end is just sitting there. Won't move further. Of course the socket bent up
the metal plate behind the bearing. Crap! I will need to replace that. I will try to reheat yet again and repeat the process.

Jeremy

Mike's response:

"yep you stuck the bearing. I said I use a propane torch for a reason, the heat gun just won't get things hot enough to work right. Actually I've had good luck using MAPP gass which burns even hotter than propane but requires a little more skill to not ruin anything.

Here is how you fix it.

Use a propane torch. Cheap to buy from Home Depot or Lowes (any hardware store really)

Heat up the mag flange. Move the torch around the flange to keep the heat even.

After about 5-7 min it should be ready to go.

Now carefully tap the bearing back home, you need to free up the jam. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE, the outer part of the flange around the bearing is very thin and can easilly snap off making your mag flange in to a paperweight. Sometimes the bearing will drop back in to place but not usually.

Turn the mag over so the bearing will want to drop out, over a coffee can works well, make sure the bearing/flange is level!!!. I use my big vice to support the mag while I heat it up.

Keep heating the flange up. After about 5 min if the bearing hasen't droped out on its own then try to tap it out. You want to use a socket thats just smaller than the outer hole on the mag so the seal can EVENLY push the bearing out. If I remember right a 27mm works well (and is the same for the rear hub nut).

Things are going to smoke (a lot) and be really really hot so don't touch things with out gloves or pliers. Once I get the bearing out I like to set the mag flange (or case) aside on the garage floor out of the way to allow it to cool down. Once it's cool clean/degrease it.

Getting things back together are harder and take a bit of patience to do right and not melt the seal. You might want to have some one with some more expierence put the bearings in for you to stay on the safe side. I can do it but it might be a pain to get the parts here, it would be easier to call Barry at SF scooter center.

If you want to send the parts to me I have time to do the job. Next day turn around." - Mike

Next step: I requested and received a free propane torch from Freecycle.org and now need to get a 27mm deep socket.

Follow-up email to Mike:
The damn propane torch kept blowing out. Used the heat gun again. The hole mag flange was hot even through my gloves. I had to tap it back in a little. I borrowed a 27mm socket (a 28mm or 29mm would have worked a little better) from a neighbor. I had to tap it moderately hard to get it free and to pop out. Of course I destroyed the track on the bearing, but since I am replacing all bearings this isn't an issue. Come to think of it everyone I speak to says to always replace the bearings when restoring. Silly not to. Again, I did destroy the metal plate behind the bearing, but I suspect I can buy one of those for a few bucks. I used the coffee can idea and it worked. The bearing was really stuck in there. I wiped it out and the inside of the mag flange looks to be in good shape. The bearing I took out was engraved by hand with ZS something and a C3 after it. Is that factory stock?

By the way, FreeCycle is where I got my propane torch. Not bad.

Two more bearings to go and not much more is left.

Another purchase

I received my most recent order from Danell at SPD. They had some bearings on clearance and I bought them for the 2nd engine I plan to build. I also bought a brass throttle, which I will need.

My package included:
$20 - CasaLambretta rear hub bearing (Made in Italy in Mecur packaging)
$8 - FAG 6004 bearing (made in Portugal)
$8 - SKF 6305/C3 (made in India, but I may toss this one)
$20 - Li/GP Brass throttle pulley, sm
$0 - Makino clutch plates Lambretta Li (gift from Danell. They were free included in the package).

(plus a $34 Vespa part I needed was included in the total below)

Grand total with shipping $90.77

I bought these bearings to rebuild the spare engine. I also needed those clutch plates for the spare engine so that is good. The brass pulley will be used in the restoration of my TV as it is missing.

Thx Danell for the clutch plate gift!

The Jim McClenaghan Lambretta Tool Set

A while back I contacted my mentor Stu Werner about making my own Lammy tools, because my father-in-law is a welder. I asked Stu if I could do it and he said:

"Hell yes! I have a fantastic homemade tool to extract the mag flange off cases. It works on really stuck ones and pushes off the crank. I find the t-extrators can strip the holes in the mag flange if you are not extremely careful. You can use long bolts you buy at the hardware store instead of t-hadles. Thats what I have. They are the same thread pattern as the rear hub extractor bolts.(there are 2 different sizes of rear hub bolts for the extractor). I have to throw this in, when you do extract the flange off the case, heat up the case around the flange with a torch.

You could make most of the tools yourself. A clutch holder, maybe a flywheel holder, clutch compressor, clutch spring holder etc. They all look a little ghetto even the "pro" made ones..." - Stu

I posted the question on LCUSA and Jim responded:

"Most tools are fairly easily fabricated, and I've made most myself.

The easiest, is probably the clutch holder. Take an old metal clutch plate, braze or weld two 1" lugs (from 1/8" sheet) at 180 deg and you're done.

The clutch compressor is a little more complicated, but only because you need to measure it more precisely. Measure across one of your cases, allow a height for the tool of at least 4", and also give yourself some allowance on the bolt holes (to the cases) so that you can centre the compressor bolt properly. Another way around this, is to add a wide nut to the centre bolt, which will give you more leeway, but it's easier to centre using the case bolts.

A flywheel holder is also very simple. Use 3" NB pipe, with a wall thickness of less than sch 40. All you need is an off cut, so it shouldn't cost you anything. Find someone working on a construction site, and you'll be good.

You can make an engine mount tool from (UK size) scaffolding. Failling that, get 2.1/2" NB pipe, sch 80 or thereabouts and go from there.

I do have a drawing I did for a fork compressor tool around somewhere, and I can up load it if you want. If I can find the time at work, I could do drawings for all of these tools, but it won't be this week, unfortunately." - Jim

"It would be possible to make a flywheel remover, but you'd want to do it on a lathe, using hexagonal bar stock rather than pipe. The problem with using pipe, is that it would have to be heavy wall (XXS or better), and you'd still have to machine the flats on it for tightening into the flywheel. The centre bolt needs to line up precisely too, so you'd want to machine it rather than welding a nut on. Another reason to use a lathe, is because the thread size is quite unusual (metric fine for the Italian ones, I think), and it would be expensive to buy a die that large.

All in all, probably easier/cheaper to buy one from Casa or wherever.

The rear hub extractor is a little different. The type all the shops sell is a bit crap - it woks, but not too well. You could fabricate a good one, from steel plate, and a nut welded in the centre, and it would be far more gentle on the hub. The original Innocenti tool is this style (ie 2 leg gear puller). I don't have one, but it would be easy enough to make, and fairly forgiving dimensionally. There is a picture of one in the "Sticky's" manual, so we can probably figure out workable dimensions.

You'll want to use 1/4" (6mm) plate for this, and for the clutch compressor and fork link compressor.

I have a con rod holder, which you'll be able to make too. It's basically just a piece of 1/2" plate, with a slot cut in it, although 1/4" should work just fine." - Jim

A big thanx to LCUSA member Jim M. for providing the following plans to make your own Lammy tools. PDFs are available as well.

Clutch compressor:
Con rod tool:
Flywheel holder:
Fork compressor:
Jim's rear hub holder made with 1/2 an old Lammy rim:


Click photos to enlarge.

I will post photos of the tools I have made in early August as I will be visiting my in-laws in Portland, OR. I am in contact with a Lucky Bastard Scooter Club member and I may be able to have some actual tools loaned to me to use as a reference when making these tools.

Know your bearings!

When it comes to engines there are a couple parts you wouldn't want to even think about skimping on, such as your crank or bearings. Imagine them going.

There is a lot of crap bearings being sold via the gray market and now some reputable shops won't even carry major brands, such as SKF. And there is a lot of inconsistency of quality in the some major bearing brands. Ask your shop what their policy is on bearings.

Remember when Mongoose BMX bikes were great bikes or when Iams was one of the top three dog foods? It wasn't that long ago! Now you can find Mongoose bikes being sold at Target and Iams at Walmart. People I speak with say, Iams is great food! Until I show them the ingredients and they feel like crap for feeding it to their dog for so long. They didn't do their research -- they just went off of brand name and previous reputation.

One reputable shop told me, "The gist is that our main bearing supplier won't order SKF bearings any more, because SKF will not guarantee which country the bearings were made in. He'd order the same stuff month to month, and one month they might be from Germany, and the next from India. He has clients with much higher stress applications than us, and they need a guarantee of quality, which can't be done when the bearings come from different countries like that. So, he won't stock SKF anymore, and nor will many other proper bearing houses."

Please always ask your bearing distributer where your bearings were made (it must be stamped on the bearing) and confirm that it was made to be used in the USA.

The shop also explained to me . . .

We don't use bearings from India full stop. The quality is too up and down and there have been plenty of problems with them over the years. Some seem fine, and other have catastrophic failure.

It doesn't matter which manufacturer made the bearing. You have to know 100% where the bearing was made and which country it was intended for. Which is why we only buy bearings from the same bearing house we've been buying from for years.

NSK bearings can be made in China. It depends who you are getting them off. If there is no country of origin marked on the bearing, they are from China.

Also, if you buy a bearing that was brought in on the grey market, there is no guarantee of quality, even of it was made in Japan or Europe. Dodgy bearing dealers import cheap bearings that were made for other countries, and not intended for use in the US. They are lower quality. Look for the case "SKF USA, Inc. v. International Trade Commission, 2005". It explains it all, and even some official brand bearing dealers are doing it.

Do your research! Eating it at 60 mph on 10 inch tires isn't worth it.

I ordered most of my bearings from Kaman Industrial Technologies and two of them are stamped "Japan" and the third (6305VV.C3) is not stamped at all. I called my rep immediately and said "are they from China?" She told me according to NSK . . . "PER FACTORY ALL MADE IN JAPAN". I feel a little a nervous.

Please do comment should you know anything contrary to this.

I emailed NSK the following:

Hello NSK,

I am rebuilding a vintage Lambretta scooter that can travel upwards up 60 mph and I purchased NSK bearings (some will be exposed to gasoline/oil mixture and require the tolerance for an engine) for the engine because of the positive reputation NSK has. I purchased them through Kaman Industrial Technologies.

From doing research, I have learned that there are a lot of grey market bearings be sold in the USA, which were not intended for use in America. Some of your name-brand competitors have gone to court over this because those bearings and stamped with their name on it. Bearings that do not have the country stamped on it often come from China and may not be of USA quality.

My questions are:
1) My biggest concern is I purchased NSK 6305VVC3 Radial Ball Bearing and there is NO indication of what country it was made in. The bearing is not stamped on the metal. The seals are stamped "6305V NSK A29" and the other side is stamped "6305V NSK A33". The bearing does not even indicate it is a C3 tolerance bearing, only the box does. The box does not indicate what country it was made in. Are you able to tell me where this bearing was made? And can you tell me if it was intended for use in the USA?

2) I purchased two other bearings that are stamped "Japan" and on the back of both boxes it says "made in Japan." The bearings are: NSK NU205M Cylindrical roller Bearing and NSK 6004 Radial Ball Bearing. Can you confirm that these were made for use in USA?

My thought is it's better to ask now and get the details on the bearings. I don't want to find out in 2-3 years when I am going 65 mph on the free way for a short spurt in heavy traffic and to have a bearing fail, which has happened to other scooterists with different name brand bearings.

3) The bearings I ordered are "industrial bearings" not automotive said Kaman Industrial Technologies. Is this a problem?

Thanx in advance for your help,

Jeremy

Within four hours I received this response to my email from NSK:

"Jeremy,

Thank you for your interest in NSK. I hope the below response will help address any of your concerns.

Kaman Industrial Technologies is an Authorized NSK Distributor. It is unlikely that you would receive gray market bearings from this distributor. NSK 6305 bearings are manufactured in the US in Clarinda, IA. We do not mark our bearing that are made domestically with manufacturing location. For this particular size the C3 clearance is also not etched or stamped on
the bearing. The marking on the seals of the bearings that you have purchased include the bearing series ( 6305) and the manufacturing lot number.

NSK bearings that are marked "Japan" are manufactured in Japan and are intended for sale in the US.

You can be assured that the 6305 that you have purchased have been made in the US.

6305 bearing are used in other industries and applications other than automotive therefore the reason they were not listed as "automotive" bearings.

If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact me.

Thank you,

Heather Strack
NSK Corporation
Marketing Communications