Spare engine dilemma

So I emailed my mentors the following question:

I am seriously considering rebuilding my spare TV175 engine now as I
will be building the one to go in my bike. I figure they are both
apart. Bead blast all the cases at the same time. Clean all the
parts, etc. will be easy.

I am also thinking about selling the second engine after rebuild to
help fund my restoration (but secretively I dream about finding
another TV minus the engine and having two). Here's my dilemma the
second engine is missing:

1) Entire kick start quadrant and kick start.

2) Entire top-end and piston

3) Clutch plates, springs, and the top of that assembly.

4) Possibly a crank. I have a good spare, I believe, but the one in
my other engine is currently frozen with flywheel. I just ordered a
flywheel remover tool from Gene today.

5) Bearing, seals, grommets, various hardware, etc.

6) Rear hub

7) Plate that connects to the engine case and then the flywheel

So the question is how much would a stock rebuilt with quality TV175
S3 engine go for. I am fearful that it would cost a lot to build for
a price that isn't much more than I invested in it. My other option
is to just sell the cases and parts separately if I decide to sell.

You guys all build either sell or have sold scoots and possibly
engines too . . . so I figure you guys would be the best to ask.

I have an opportunity to buy FAG or SKF bearings (I think I prefer the
FAGs as it seems they have a slightly better reputation than SKF and
no India factory bearings) for 1/2 the price I paid for NSKs and that
made me start thinking about all of this. If I am patient and rebuild
the second engine slowly I can find good deals piece by piece and
complete the engine at a lower cost, but with high quality.

At this point I am just going to hold on to what I have and see if another TV lands in my lap.

Answers:

"Yeah that's a tough call. It's one thing to build up a motor if you have a lot of spares laying around but quite a diffrent story to have to buy all the missing parts. Also it's a TV175 which can be harder to source all the correct resto parts for (top end espically).

If you still want to build another bike it dosen't hurt to have the case just sitting there untill you find a frame and all the parts to make it a complete bike. If you are worried about cost I'd sell off what you have and find a complete bike to rebuild." - Mike

Bearings

In a previous post I research what I need to know about the individual bearings and what stresses they are under. I did this before ordering my bearings.
The above bearing came from Scooters Originali. RIV is OEM for Lambrettas and it is my understanding that it is a high quality bearing. It costs $60 and was included in my first engine parts order. I spoke with my mentor Tom G. (noted heavily in the restoration of my wife's Vespa SS180).

The following bearings I ordered from Kaman Industrial Technologies:
$50.63 - NSK NU205M Cylindrical roller Bearing (made in Japan)
$24.42 - NSK 6305VVC3 Radial Ball Bearing (made in USA)
$19.00 - NSK 6004 Radial Ball Bearing (made in Japan)


Total: $114.87 = $103.22 + $11.65 to ship to their warehouse what they did not have in stock. They shipped to my address for free, but I still needed to pay the freight cost from their sister warehouses. I dealt with Tonia Riveria at Kaman Industrial Technologies in San Leandro, Calif. and recommend her highly. She did a lot research for me regarding the bearings and was joy to work with.

I ordered my needle bearings from Jet200 along with my electronic ignition:
$12.75 - Layshaft needle bearing
$24.70 - Clutch needle bearing (qty: 2)
$12.75 - Gear cluster needle bearing

Day 1 -- Engine Disassembly

Issues:
- Some casing studs came out with the nut.

- At least one of the threaded holes in the casing are shot. Heli-coil?

- The kickstart lever was welded on.

- The crank and flywheel are frozen together. I don't have a flywheel remover tool yet. I hope it frees easily. I will post more on this issue later.

I will document the remainder of the disassembly and post a second slideshow for that.

Yes, I know there is a Vespa sign hung. My wife owns a 1967 Vespa SS180. A Lambretta sign will go up as well.

Note: I do not have a clutch basket holding tool, so I used a creative approach. I used a piece of wood to lock the basket and spider. I tapped the wood in with a hammer. My thought is the wood is softer than the metal and would not damage it. I then hit the screw with a impact wrench at the lowest setting just punching it for less than a second each time. Nothing moved so I stepped the wrench up to the second setting and repeated. Again nothing. I stepped it up to the third and final setting and hit again and it broke the nut free. I never fired for a full second in length with the impact wrench. It was fire and immediately release and repeat.

Lessons learned:
"One thing, never try to remove a clutch without a clutch holder. The centre basket (spider) is really soft, and almost impossible to re-align if you bend it. Hopefully yours will be OK. I bent a couple, before I realised it was cheaper (and easier) to use the proper tool.

Your flywheel should come off easily, but remember to put a new woodruff key in when you rebuild. They're cheap, so it's probably worth to have a spare." - Jim

Welded kick start

I am looking into how to best resolve the issue of my welded kick start lever.

Here's a second angle. Note that the lever is not on straight, it's actually at an angle.
Using a Dremel, hack saw, screw driver, and copper head hammer I was able to free the kick start lever. The weld was cracked and the kick start lever had some play, which was a good sign. I first hit with the Dremel with sandpaper and then Dremel with a metal grinder on it. Too slow to move much. I focused on the weak spot between the split where the screw would go in the kick start lever. I got through it and then used a large screw driver to pry it open further by tapping the screw driver with a hammer. Once it was opened more I focused on grinding the weld on the kick start quadrant / stem. I rounded the edges. I tapped at the quadrant head a bit with a copper headed hammer (softer metal on the hammer) to see if I got movement. IDIOT! I didn't remove the circlip first and therefore ruined the one I had. I couldn't see it beneath the muck, but I should have known better.

There are no teeth left on either kick shaft or lever. I have a spare kick start lever, but need a shaft.

If you watch the slideshow of Day 1 of the engine disassembly you'll see the pictures.

Bottom line is I need a new kickstart shaft aka quadrant, circlip, and possibly an additional shim. Total cost is about $50. I called Gene M. at Scooters O. about this. He told me that new quadrants are designed for GPs and are stronger than the older Li/SX/TV style ones, which are known for cracking if not constantly care for. But the GP one will not fit without removing a millimeter of the chain case with a special tool Gene would loan me.

Here's the advice I received on working through this problem:

"I would hacksaw that shit off and then replace the cam inside the case. Someone welded that on there because the cam was stripped or they had the wrong kickstart. Either way they buggered it up and you get to pay for it.

It's one of the last parts you put togehter when building the motor so you can order the part and keep on building." - Dano

"Hah, when you said welded, you really meant welded! Dang, I thought you meant that the just were really stuck together... Yeah, Dano's right, there isn't much you can do other than cut it off." - P

"Wow...

Anyway, you can grind at the weld, which means you will also grind into the kick start shaft and kick starter. By the time you grind off enough material to pull the kick starter, you'll have eaten into the shaft too. Then when you go to put a new kick starter on, the shaft will be that much shorter, but will probably still work.

But, like others have said, just hack it off and get a new kick start shaft and kick start lever." - Mike C.

"One more thing to note: When you either cut off the kick start or grind off the weld, make sure you take a file or grinder to the cut edge of the shaft and bevel the end. That way it won’t catch on the bushing/bearing and score it when you remove the shaft." - Derek G.

Engine Parts Order #2

I received the second parts order needed to rebuild my engine. I ordered these parts from Jet200.

Quantity / Description / Price

1 x Flywheel nut & washer - Li/SX/TV $3.99
1 x Flywheel dust cover circlip $1.50
1 x Flywheel dust cover $2.99
1 x Li electronic flywheel $90.00
1 x Electronic Wiring Loom - 12v (black) $44.99
1 x Electronic CDI & 12v Rectifier Mounting Kit $39.00
1 x Ducati CDI/Ignition coil $40.00
1 x Ducati 12v/20a AC regulator $45.00
1 x Layshaft needle bearing $12.75
1 x Complete 12v bulb kit $8.50
1 x Gear cluster needle bearing $12.75
2 x Clutch needle bearing $24.70
1 x BGM 120w electronic stator plate $95.99
1 x NGK Resistor cover (spark plug cap) $4.20
1 x HT lead / CDI rubber connector $2.00

Total: $423.36

One more package to arrive with my bearings in it and then I will have everything to rebuild the engine. Hurray!

Parts Ordered #1 for engine rebuild

Below is my first parts order for my engine, which I ordered from Scooters Originali.  I did not include the quantities below.

Spacer, Seal Retainer - Mag

Screw, DriveSide Oil Seal Plate

Oil Throw Washer A16

Deep Nut - 8mm

Kickstart Rubber Bumpstop

Cone Engine Bolt - Li Special/TV/SX/GP

Washer-Engine Bumpstop Rubber

Engine Rubber Bumpstop

RIV Bearing- Rear Hub Bearing RIV

Kickstart Pad - Ser 3 - Black

Spacer, Bearing Spacer - Mag

Washer, Split Lock - 7mm

Flange - Rear Hub Seal Holding Plate

Distance Nut Spacing Cylinder Cover - 8mm x 30

Nut - 7mm Jam

Seal Set - 5 Engines Seal ROLF

Main Jet - SH / Pilot PH - 106: SH1/20

Engine Mount (Silent Block) - Large
Ser 3 Special/TV/SX/GP - TUTTO (Sold in
Pairs Only)

Grand total: $188.12

Note: I spoke with Gene M. Tutto used a "blue" mark for TV and "yellow" for GP on engine mounts. Tutto says they used different hardnesses for the rubber in these two mounts, but Gene questioned if Innocenti really went through this hoop on the stock mounts. He and other reputable shops have used the GP mounts on Li/SX/TV and had great results.

Lambretta Children's Clothing

Children's Lambretta clothing for sale.
I need to raise $450 for the electronic ignition set-up I want for my TV175. I'm a high school English teacher and a proud dad to a 2.5 year old, which means to my Lambretta it needs to wait a long time for parts money. It is my goal to completely rebuild the engine this summer and then some. In order to do that I need to buy my BGM electronic ignition. So I am creating a fundraising event for my TV. I am selling applique Lambrettas (think iron-on patches which are iron & sewn on and totally safe in the washing machine and will handle toddler abuse) on onesies for infants through 24 months. Pictured above is my son wearing one my shirts (Note: I have not added the cross stitching around the profile yet, which will add a nice subtle texture to it and make very durable).

I have a variety of templates, which include Series I, II, III, & a couple Lambros. Personally, I have always wanted to dress my son in a Lambretta shirt and I think he looks cute and stylish in this one-of-a-kind Lambretta shirt.

Onesies are for sale at $15.00 plus postage. I have a variety of fabrics that are friendly to both boys and/or girls. I just need to know the size of onesie, the model of Lammy you want, and gender of the child. I can use a color thread or a clear thread (basically invisible). Just let me know. If you are a LCUSA member you can PM me at JeremyJSutton.