I asked Gene M. about the remagnitized stators when considering building a fully stock motor and this is what I asked Gene:
If I go with a 6-pole stator/flywheel and have Barry Gwin at SF Scooter Center re-magnitise it -- do you think it would be very dependable with a freshly rebuilt motor or do you like the SIL set-up more?
Gene's response:
Does he have a flux tester -- to see which magnets are low?
If the recharge has worked?
Remagnetized stators are fine -I ran my tv200 with stock 6 pole DC system for years. Strong flywheel too. Ignition was fine. Charging was fine. What was poor was the headlight power..the elec kit I have now puts out a lot more wattage for lights...
Sunday, April 19, 2009
Saturday, April 18, 2009
Bearing choices
I have been doing a lot of research on bearing choices and trying to make sure that I get great quality bearings. I spoke with both a scoot shop and two bearing distributors. SKF and FAG brand bearings are the most expensive bearings I looked at, but it looks like I will be using NSK. The bearing distributor has not been able to find the three needle rolling bearings based off of the numbers provided in Marti Sticky's book. Here's what I have so far:
- $27.35 for drive side main bearing "6305 VVC3 NSK (has rubber seal per Sticky's recommendation)"
- $50.63 for flywheel side main bearing "NU205M NSK (has bronze metal cages)"
* Alternative is $141 for FAG NU205E.M1
- $19.00 for endplate gear cluster bearing "6004 NSK"
- $11.12 for front hub sealed bearing "6201VV NSK"
- $60.00 for a RIV branded rear hub bearing
I will confirm that these are the best choices to go with.
Note: I do not need to order the front hub bearings as my front disc brake came with two brand new FAGs with metal seals still in unopened boxes.
- $27.35 for drive side main bearing "6305 VVC3 NSK (has rubber seal per Sticky's recommendation)"
- $50.63 for flywheel side main bearing "NU205M NSK (has bronze metal cages)"
* Alternative is $141 for FAG NU205E.M1
- $19.00 for endplate gear cluster bearing "6004 NSK"
- $11.12 for front hub sealed bearing "6201VV NSK"
- $60.00 for a RIV branded rear hub bearing
I will confirm that these are the best choices to go with.
Note: I do not need to order the front hub bearings as my front disc brake came with two brand new FAGs with metal seals still in unopened boxes.
Wednesday, April 15, 2009
Order #1 Engine Parts List
I am researching the bearings more, but here is a list of the parts I ordered.
L52-433 Flange - Rear Hub Seal Holding Plate 1.99
L52-435 Engine Rubber Bumpstop 1.99
L52-436 Washer-Engine Bumpstop Rubber 0.99
(qty: 2) L52-424 Cone Engine Bolt - Li Special/TV/SX/GP 11.98
L52-430 Distance Nut Spacing Cylinder Cover 1.29
8mm x 30
L52-523 Kickstart Rubber Bumpstop 1.59
HD-DN-008 Deep Nut - 8mm (EXHAUST - ENGINECASE) 0.79
(Qty:4) HD-JN-007 Nut - 7mm Jam (ENDPLATE) 0.80
(Qty: 4) HD-LW-007 Washer, Split Lock - 7mm 1.00
L52-442 6mm Grease Nipple 1.59 (can I reuse original?)
L52-520IT Oil Drain Plug - Magnetic 10.99 (can I reuse original?)
L52-438 Oil Throw Washer A16 0.99
L60-202R Seal Set - 5 Engines Seal ROLF 22.99
(Qty: 4) L52-444 DriveSide Oil Seal Plate Screw 1.96
*** DO YOU WANT SLOTTED, PHILIPS OR
ALLEN KEY? (I would like what ever would be stock on an 1962 Italian TV175)
L52-439 Spacer, Seal Retainer - Mag 2.59
L52-440 Spacer, Bearing Spacer - Mag 1.25
HD-IC-052 Circlip - Internal 52mm - MAG FLANGE 1.19 (needed with my TV crank?)
L56-300G Kickstart Pad - Ser 3 - Black 5.99
(Qty: 2) HD-BB-516 Ball Bearing-Cruciform 1.58 (needed with my TV crank?)
L60-303RIV Lambretta: Bearing, Rear Hub RIV Italian brand $60
Main jet (106 for Dell'Orto SH1/20 $4
Total: $137.68
L52-433 Flange - Rear Hub Seal Holding Plate 1.99
L52-435 Engine Rubber Bumpstop 1.99
L52-436 Washer-Engine Bumpstop Rubber 0.99
(qty: 2) L52-424 Cone Engine Bolt - Li Special/TV/SX/GP 11.98
L52-430 Distance Nut Spacing Cylinder Cover 1.29
8mm x 30
L52-523 Kickstart Rubber Bumpstop 1.59
HD-DN-008 Deep Nut - 8mm (EXHAUST - ENGINECASE) 0.79
(Qty:4) HD-JN-007 Nut - 7mm Jam (ENDPLATE) 0.80
(Qty: 4) HD-LW-007 Washer, Split Lock - 7mm 1.00
L52-442 6mm Grease Nipple 1.59 (can I reuse original?)
L52-520IT Oil Drain Plug - Magnetic 10.99 (can I reuse original?)
L52-438 Oil Throw Washer A16 0.99
L60-202R Seal Set - 5 Engines Seal ROLF 22.99
(Qty: 4) L52-444 DriveSide Oil Seal Plate Screw 1.96
*** DO YOU WANT SLOTTED, PHILIPS OR
ALLEN KEY? (I would like what ever would be stock on an 1962 Italian TV175)
L52-439 Spacer, Seal Retainer - Mag 2.59
L52-440 Spacer, Bearing Spacer - Mag 1.25
HD-IC-052 Circlip - Internal 52mm - MAG FLANGE 1.19 (needed with my TV crank?)
L56-300G Kickstart Pad - Ser 3 - Black 5.99
(Qty: 2) HD-BB-516 Ball Bearing-Cruciform 1.58 (needed with my TV crank?)
L60-303RIV Lambretta: Bearing, Rear Hub RIV Italian brand $60
Main jet (106 for Dell'Orto SH1/20 $4
Total: $137.68
Saturday, April 11, 2009
It's all about engine bearings
Background reference: great information on bearing choices can be found here.
When restoring my wife's 1967 Vespa VSC. I quickly took to two mentors, because I am a total newbie. Those guys are Christopher Markley and Tom Giordano. They are referenced a ton on the blog restore of the Vespa. For this Lambretta I have added to mentors to my list, Stuart Werner and Mike Analt. So now I have four teachers. I am in the process of learning everything I can about the bearings that go inside a Lambretta engine. I don't like to just do things. I get obsessive and want to know about each piece before installing it and without a doubt bearings are parts that play an integral role in the performance and safety of your scooter.
First, I spoke with Gene Meredith and learned he sells URB bearings, but of course he explained
we can get any bearing you want. we normally use URB, which is a good high quality bearing, but if you insist on SKF I can get it, although it will be more $ and also NO guarantee what country the bearing was made in (SKF supply whatever is sent to them from whatever country is making x bearing at that time - which is why we prefer URB which is a good European bearing - used around here by most motorcycle shops and we use and have had no problem with them. they are EC which is extra capacity rating.
Secondly, I spoke with my mentors and got a greatly detailed answer that taught me exactly what I needed to know.
For the crank, you want to use an ECP (extra capacity) bearing. If you can get that from SKF, great. If not, go with the best quality bearing you can find. But then again, SKF has plants all over the world, and I'm not thrilled with their Indian production. Some of the Vespa Crankshaft bearings you get these days are SKF Indian, and I have seen several cage failures (and NEVER saw a cage failure on anything BUT these indian SKFs).
I've had good experiences with ZKL bearings.
But remember, the magneto side bearing is a two-part roller bearing. N204 or NU204 (I can't recall right now which). The rollers are held in place by a cage. Most N or NU 204 bearings made these days are made with plastic cages. But if you hunt, you can still find ones with bronze or steel cages. You want to use a bronze or steel cage bearing.
For a few years, (a reputable very shop) was selling plastic caged bearings. I had spoken with the Technical Service people at SKF, who said that the plastic cages were not meant to be used in constant contact with fuel. I raised this issue with (the very reputable shop owner), who spoke with (very reputable Italian distributor and Lammy Lover) about it. (The Italian Distributor) said he had been using them for years with no ill effects, and continued supplying plastic cage bearings. I decided to only use metal cage for my rebuilds. I think -- but am not sure -- that (the very reputable shop) has changed their policy and that their magneto bearings now only come with metal cages. I have not bought one lately, so I don't know.
You will not have an option to use metal cages with some of the needle rollers in the Lammy transmission. Some only come in plastic cage these days, but it does not matter. The transmission does not see gas -- only oil. So plastic is not a problem here.
Tom
When I lived in Harrisburg, PA I purchased my bearings from an industrial company, but I can't recall the name off the top of my head.
I have also been told that Power Transmission Services in Baltimore at 410-354-0010 is good and sells ZKL as well.
When restoring my wife's 1967 Vespa VSC. I quickly took to two mentors, because I am a total newbie. Those guys are Christopher Markley and Tom Giordano. They are referenced a ton on the blog restore of the Vespa. For this Lambretta I have added to mentors to my list, Stuart Werner and Mike Analt. So now I have four teachers. I am in the process of learning everything I can about the bearings that go inside a Lambretta engine. I don't like to just do things. I get obsessive and want to know about each piece before installing it and without a doubt bearings are parts that play an integral role in the performance and safety of your scooter.
First, I spoke with Gene Meredith and learned he sells URB bearings, but of course he explained
we can get any bearing you want. we normally use URB, which is a good high quality bearing, but if you insist on SKF I can get it, although it will be more $ and also NO guarantee what country the bearing was made in (SKF supply whatever is sent to them from whatever country is making x bearing at that time - which is why we prefer URB which is a good European bearing - used around here by most motorcycle shops and we use and have had no problem with them. they are EC which is extra capacity rating.
Secondly, I spoke with my mentors and got a greatly detailed answer that taught me exactly what I needed to know.
For the crank, you want to use an ECP (extra capacity) bearing. If you can get that from SKF, great. If not, go with the best quality bearing you can find. But then again, SKF has plants all over the world, and I'm not thrilled with their Indian production. Some of the Vespa Crankshaft bearings you get these days are SKF Indian, and I have seen several cage failures (and NEVER saw a cage failure on anything BUT these indian SKFs).
I've had good experiences with ZKL bearings.
But remember, the magneto side bearing is a two-part roller bearing. N204 or NU204 (I can't recall right now which). The rollers are held in place by a cage. Most N or NU 204 bearings made these days are made with plastic cages. But if you hunt, you can still find ones with bronze or steel cages. You want to use a bronze or steel cage bearing.
For a few years, (a reputable very shop) was selling plastic caged bearings. I had spoken with the Technical Service people at SKF, who said that the plastic cages were not meant to be used in constant contact with fuel. I raised this issue with (the very reputable shop owner), who spoke with (very reputable Italian distributor and Lammy Lover) about it. (The Italian Distributor) said he had been using them for years with no ill effects, and continued supplying plastic cage bearings. I decided to only use metal cage for my rebuilds. I think -- but am not sure -- that (the very reputable shop) has changed their policy and that their magneto bearings now only come with metal cages. I have not bought one lately, so I don't know.
You will not have an option to use metal cages with some of the needle rollers in the Lammy transmission. Some only come in plastic cage these days, but it does not matter. The transmission does not see gas -- only oil. So plastic is not a problem here.
Tom
When I lived in Harrisburg, PA I purchased my bearings from an industrial company, but I can't recall the name off the top of my head.
I have also been told that Power Transmission Services in Baltimore at 410-354-0010 is good and sells ZKL as well.
Sunday, February 22, 2009
Engine Parts List
This will likely be my next purchase. Here is what I need I need to buy to rebuild my engine:
$0 -- Gasket Set - TV 175 Ser 3 (bought already at $22)
$2 -- Flange - Rear Hub Seal Holding Plate
$2 -- Engine Rubber Bumpstop
$1 -- Washer - Engine Rubber Bumpstop
$12 -- Qty. 2 Cone Engine Bolt - TV
$1 -- Distance Nut Spacing Cylinder Cover 8mmx30
$2 -- Kickstart Rubber Bumpstop
$1 -- Deep Nut - 8mm for Exhaust/Engine Case
$1 -- Qty: 4 Endplate Nut 7mm Jam
$1 -- Qty: 4 Washer, Split Lock 7mm
$2 -- 6mm Grease Nipple
$11 -- Oil Drain Plug Magnetic
$1 -- Oil Throw Washer A16
$20 -- Driveside Bearing Li/SX
$23 -- Seak Ser - 5 Engine Seal ROLF
$2 -- Qty: 4 Drive Side Oil Seal Plate Screw
$3 -- Spacer, Seal Retainer - Mag
$2 -- Spacer, Bearing Spacer - Mag
$8 -- Small End Bearing - 16mm
$2 -- Circlip - Internal 52nn - Nag Flange
$0000 -- Bearing - Magneto - TV 175
$16 -- Mainshaft Ball Bearing
$8 -- Bearing - Mainshaft Needle Roller
$6 -- Kickstart Pad in black
$11 -- Bearing - Layshaft Needle Bearing
$2 -- Qty: 2 Ball Bearing - Cruciform
$22 - Qty: 2 Bearing - Clutch Sprocket Needle Roller
Rough Estimate Prior Tax/Shipping: $186.00
(Note: all figures rounded up so I expect price will be slightly less)
I still need to determine:
1) What brand engine mounts will I use?
2) Which electronic ignition will I use?
$0 -- Gasket Set - TV 175 Ser 3 (bought already at $22)
$2 -- Flange - Rear Hub Seal Holding Plate
$2 -- Engine Rubber Bumpstop
$1 -- Washer - Engine Rubber Bumpstop
$12 -- Qty. 2 Cone Engine Bolt - TV
$1 -- Distance Nut Spacing Cylinder Cover 8mmx30
$2 -- Kickstart Rubber Bumpstop
$1 -- Deep Nut - 8mm for Exhaust/Engine Case
$1 -- Qty: 4 Endplate Nut 7mm Jam
$1 -- Qty: 4 Washer, Split Lock 7mm
$2 -- 6mm Grease Nipple
$11 -- Oil Drain Plug Magnetic
$1 -- Oil Throw Washer A16
$20 -- Driveside Bearing Li/SX
$23 -- Seak Ser - 5 Engine Seal ROLF
$2 -- Qty: 4 Drive Side Oil Seal Plate Screw
$3 -- Spacer, Seal Retainer - Mag
$2 -- Spacer, Bearing Spacer - Mag
$8 -- Small End Bearing - 16mm
$2 -- Circlip - Internal 52nn - Nag Flange
$0000 -- Bearing - Magneto - TV 175
$16 -- Mainshaft Ball Bearing
$8 -- Bearing - Mainshaft Needle Roller
$6 -- Kickstart Pad in black
$11 -- Bearing - Layshaft Needle Bearing
$2 -- Qty: 2 Ball Bearing - Cruciform
$22 - Qty: 2 Bearing - Clutch Sprocket Needle Roller
Rough Estimate Prior Tax/Shipping: $186.00
(Note: all figures rounded up so I expect price will be slightly less)
I still need to determine:
1) What brand engine mounts will I use?
2) Which electronic ignition will I use?
Saturday, February 21, 2009
Electronic Ignition Price Comparison
I am looking into which electronic ignition I want to go with. To read more on the topic you can visit the LCUSA forum here(you must be a member though).
The Popular BGM Set-Up at a Lambretta Shop
$106 -- BGM 120w electronic stator plate
$48 -- Ducati 12v/20a AC regulator
$55 -- Ducati CDI/Ignition coil
$90 -- Electronic flywheel (have GP, have TV?)
$46 -- MB Loom
$3 -- Dust cover
$1.50 -- Clip
$9 -- Complete bulb set
$5 -- Flywheel nut
$40 -- Mount kit
Grand Total: $403.50
SIL Set-Up at another scoot shop
$175 -- Stator/Lightened Flywheel (fins trimmed to fit beneath flywheel)
$40 -- Aftermarket CDI/Ignition coil
$63 -- Ducati CDI/Ignition coil
$30 -- Casa Lambretta Italian-Made Loom
$3 -- Flywheel nut
$3 -- Dust cover
$1 -- Clip
$9 -- Complete bulbs
$30 -- Mount bracket
Grand Total: $354
As you can see there is NOT a big difference in price. Both shops are very reputable!
The Popular BGM Set-Up at a Lambretta Shop
$106 -- BGM 120w electronic stator plate
$48 -- Ducati 12v/20a AC regulator
$55 -- Ducati CDI/Ignition coil
$90 -- Electronic flywheel (have GP, have TV?)
$46 -- MB Loom
$3 -- Dust cover
$1.50 -- Clip
$9 -- Complete bulb set
$5 -- Flywheel nut
$40 -- Mount kit
Grand Total: $403.50
SIL Set-Up at another scoot shop
$175 -- Stator/Lightened Flywheel (fins trimmed to fit beneath flywheel)
$40 -- Aftermarket CDI/Ignition coil
$63 -- Ducati CDI/Ignition coil
$30 -- Casa Lambretta Italian-Made Loom
$3 -- Flywheel nut
$3 -- Dust cover
$1 -- Clip
$9 -- Complete bulbs
$30 -- Mount bracket
Grand Total: $354
As you can see there is NOT a big difference in price. Both shops are very reputable!
Friday, February 13, 2009
Disc brake purchased
I decided before I invest in rebuilding the engine or beginning this project that I should focus on purchasing all the rarer parts that I am missing. I first purchased the switch-side perch. Next I purchased the carb. And my most recent purchase has been the disc brake unit. All are original parts.
I purchased the complete from Paul B. in Portland, OR.
I paid $450 for the unit. $12 for shipping. $6 for shipping insurance. Paul B. is a really good guy and sold it to me for the price he paid for it. May karma come back to him when he hunts down his next rare part! Paul was hesitant to sell it to me. I left the ball in his court after asking him to sell it to me. He responded a few weeks later and offered to sell it to me. California scooterists see these parts sell in the $500-$600 range; although it is rare that they come up.I posted my request to find the disc brake and buy it on LCUSA's site, but to no avail. The disc itself goes for sale on eBay from time to time, but that seems about it. Stu recommended looking in Scooterist International magazine as they are advertised in it, but Tom G. said the Brits pay crazy money for their scoots and the demand for larger displacement bikes over there would make it a bit challenging to find the part.
There are hydroalic disc brakes and reproductions available. Years ago, when Scomo was still around they sold this repro disc brake (see below). It was sand cast and the quality was said to be so-so. I have also been warned to be very careful with the Indian repros, issues with the quality of metal and I'm not 100% sure, but I think someone once warned me about the safety of them as well (don't quote me).
I also read that these repro disc brakes required some work to get it to fit properly.For more info on this from folks that know a lot more than me, you can read (if you're a member) what the LCUSA members said about disc brakes here.
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